Muon scan gives detailed, but incomplete, look at meltdown of No. 1 reactor

AFP-JIJI

Confirmation this week that all the fuel inside one of the Fukushima No. 1 plant’s broken reactors has long since melted leaves its operator with the tricky task of eventually scooping it all out, experts say.

Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Thursday it had performed a sophisticated scan of the plant’s No. 1 reactor core, giving the most detailed picture so far of what is going on in the high-radiation environment.

Nuclear experts said Friday that the test showed the unit’s fuel rods had melted beyond recognition.

“The results reaffirmed our previous understanding that a considerable amount of fuel had melted inside the nuclear pressure vessels,” said Hiroshi Miyano, a visiting professor at Hosei University in Tokyo.

“But there has been no evidence that the fuel has melted through the nuclear containment buildings and reached the outer environment,” Miyano said.

However, the scan — based on tomography imaging that made use of elementary particles called muons — did not look at the bottom part of the reactor, where the molten fuel would have pooled. So some experts suggested that it was not possible to tell whether the fuel had indeed been contained.

The fuel rods are installed the reactor’s pressure vessel, which is in turn enclosed by the primary containment vessel. These rods generate the heat used to drive steam turbines and produce electricity but must be submerged at all times to avoid melting.

“Eventually, Tepco is aiming to scoop out the melted fuel little by little, rather than burying it in concrete” as was done at Chernobyl in the former Soviet Union, Miyano said.

Muons, which continually shower the earth from space, penetrate solid objects to a greater depth than x-rays. The rate at which they pass through a material indicates its density and helps scientists to identify it.

Since muons move more slowly through relatively dense plutonium and uranium fuel than through the reactor vessel itself, mapping their trajectory can reveal exactly where the fuel is — or isn’t.

The data from this test should help Tepco’s effort to decommission the plant, which lost all power in March 2011 after the Pacific coast of Tohoku was swamped by huge tsunami. The blackout triggered a triple core meltdown.

The decommissioning process at Fukushima is expected to take three or four decades.

Experts say the latest results and the operator’s assessment of them were in line with earlier expectations.

“We presume that despite the meltdown, the fuel is still in the containment vessel,” said Tomohisa Ito, a spokesman for the International Research Institute for Nuclear Decommissioning, a special research unit involved in dismantling the troubled plant.

“But we still need to directly check the situation one day using remote-controlled robots,” he said.

Last month the International Atomic Energy Agency said Japan had made “significant progress” in its cleanup efforts but warned the situation “remains very complex” due to the growing amounts of contaminated water being generated by the process.

While the quake and tsunami that triggered the man-made nuclear crisis killed almost 19,000 people, mostly by drowning, no one is officially recorded as having died as a direct result of the meltdowns at Fukushima, though indirect deaths related to the disaster continue to climb.

However, tens of thousands of people remain displaced because of radioactive contamination around the plant, and scientists warn that some settlements may have to be abandoned forever.

  • Liars N. Fools

    That model of probity is just a wonderful paragon.

    When a conniving mendacious company like TEPCO tells a truth inimitable to its interest, only then is it the real truth.

  • Geoffrey Small

    There is enough plutonium in that melted core that they “cannot find” to kill over 100 million people.

    • Starviking

      And how will it do that?

      • Geoffrey Small

        Plutonium? Just 1 microgram, 1 millionth of a gram, is fatal. If you are exposed externally with enough it to get a dose of radiation big enough for acute radiation disease syndrome, it turns your body into a green liquid in 3 weeks. But more likely and more easily, you can ingest it by breathing, drinking or eating something that contains that single microgram or more of particles of the radionucleide. The particle(s) then stay in your body and lodge in tissue (lungs, heart, liver, kidney, stomach etc.) where they emit constant radioactive energy that damages the DNA in cells next to the particle. The cells with damaged DNA become cancerous, and the cancers grow and kill the person. Gestation average for the cancers or related diseases from the ingested contamination is within 10-15 years of ingestion. 1 gram of Plutonium is enough to kill a million people, if it is allowed to disperse into the environment (air, water, food, soil etc.) where many persons can eventually ingest the tiny tiny particles it represents a huge health, safety and financial risk to the population. Plutonium is also combustible — ready for a nuclear bomb. Just 1 gram is sufficient for an explosion of 20,000 tons of TNT like Nagasaki, and is extremely high risk of terrorist acts. You must not allow enough plutonium of the right type to come in contact with itself, or you will achieve a “criticality effect” – start of a fission reaction, the chain reaction that causes intense heat, radiation and yes, explosions- super big ones even. Plutonium, along with Cesium, Strontium and Iodine is one of the principal products of all nuclear fission reactors, and about 5 percent of all nuclear waste from these reactors, including what was left of the 3 meltdown cores of the blown Fukushima reactors. Plutonium has a “half-life” of about 24 thousand years and remains deadly to humans for 250,000-500,000 years. Losing the core material of reactor 1 is a very serious thing for all mankind. And will remain so for a very long time. Thank you for your kind attention and consideration. I hope this is helpful to you.

      • Starviking

        Leaving aside the hype of plutonium’s deadliness, how does that plutonium miraculously divide into microgram amounts and get to kill all those people?

      • Geoffrey Small

        hype? It is not hype. It is what it is. How does it “miraculously” divide into microgram amounts? There is nothing miraculous about it. If there is an explosion (like there was for reactor 1 on 11 march) the material breaks up into many individual particles (dust) and goes up into the air where it is dispersed widely in the atmosphere. The dust can be breathed in or when it falls (and it does) it lands either in water or on the ground and then the particles which are already divided, enter the water or soil, which will turn up eventually in your glass or on your plate for you to ingest. Or you may walk into your house with dust on your shoes, or your kids can come in from playing in a playground with their clothes covered in dust to breathe in your house. If there are plutonium particles in the dust, you risk breathing one or more into your lungs. Or when the material melts down inside the reactor (as has happened and described in the article) it can then leak down through the hundreds of holes in the reactor core platform where the fuel and control roads are located under the reactor chamber in the GE MKII design reactor at Fukushima and if the containment structure at the very bottom of the reactor gets compromised (which evidence of many leaks since 3/11 have indicated is so) the liquid goes down and out into the soil and the ground water and gets dispersed and “miraculously divided” over time into the soil and the water, from there, the dispersed particles enter the food chain and drinking water and over time, get consumed and ingested by all types of creatures up the food chain and then humans. Naturally, our intake ingests larger amounts of particles as the animals higher up in the food chain have more concentrated levels of contaminants. Drinking water, aquifers etc. are ingested even more directly in the water chain. No miracles, just basic physics and biology. And common sense. Not hype. And it is happening. That is why the concept of containment is so critical to the safety of the population in a nuclear accident. And that is exactly where the Japanese Government, Authorities, Safety Agencies, and Industries totally failed both their country, their people and the rest of the world. And why the missing core meltdown material is such a big, big problem. The deadly stuff was not contained, and now it is going to be everywhere. Do you get it yet Starviking?

      • greenthinker2012

        According to your theory the amount of Plutonium vaporized by atmospheric nuclear bomb testing a half century ago was many many times the amount that should have killed everyone on the planet by now.
        And yet in the real world…here we all are, still happily alive and healthy.
        When does common sense kick in and show you your fears are irrational and overblown?

      • Geoffrey Small

        …with a global epidemic of cancers all over the planet today. Ask any doctor, and get yourself checked up annually. Anybody around you with cancer? Don’t tell me no, I won’t believe you. What kind of a name is greenthinker2012 anyway with a comment like that? Let me guess, you believe that nuclear power is a solution to carbon emissions and global warming… right? And by the way, the bomb testing did put a lot of radioactivity into the atmosphere, but nothing compared to a single nuclear reactor core meltdown like Chernobyl or your 3 reactors at Fukushima. So, when it comes to radioactive emissions into the environment and its effects, the best is yet to come. But don’t listen to me I am just irrational and overblown. May you live long and prosper, sadly millions of others around you haven’t.

      • greenthinker2012

        Geoffrey there is no global epidemic.
        Get real.
        The data is available from any number of internationally recognized health organizations.
        Of course in western countries the demographic is getting older and so because of this there is an increase, but when adjusted for age there has been no change in the last 50 years.

      • Geoffrey Small

        Very funny. Let me guess, you want me to ask the WHO and the IAEA and the JAMA for starters, right? “Get real” yourself. Like I said to you before, you need to ask some doctors on the ground, not lobbyists who like you are on the nuke dole. They will tell you there is an epidemic big-time because they are stuck treating it. Especially if they work anywhere near Chernobyl and where its radioactive cloud went over in 1986. And that includes most of western Europe too. But if you are in Japan, you will find plenty there right now as well. Especially around Fukushima, ask’em about the kids and their thyroids…

      • Sam Gilman

        Yes, let’s ask people in Fukushima:

        http://www.fukushimaminponews.com/news.html?id=435

        A pathological study on the thyroid gland based on a health survey of some 370,000 people aged 18 or younger in Fukushima Prefecture suggests that thyroid cancer cases among them are unlikely to be linked to exposure to radiation from the 2011 reactor accident at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant of Tokyo Electric Power Co. The health checkup was undertaken by the prefectural government and Fukushima Medical University following the accident. The results of the survey were analyzed jointly by a team of experts from the university and
        Nagasaki University.

        Sorry, Geoffrey, I know you want lots of Japanese children to die because of Fukushima, but it isn’t happening.

      • Sam Gilman

        These people really are deeply unpleasant. It was about two or so weeks into the Fukushima crisis that I realised just how addicted some people were to the idea that lots of people were going to die. They wanted mass death like a junkie wants heroin – they know they shouldn’t, but it apparently feels so gooooood. I used to get online death threats for explaining mainstream scientific opinion, for denying them their hit.

        This is how you get someone, four years afterwards, still hoping for a hit of mass death, blithely claiming to our faces that all of our doctors are conspiring to hide mass deaths from us, and that the population just doesn’t ask questions even when people are turning to green liquid or whatever fantasy this particular individual has.

        What’s going to happen to all of these people when the Tokyo Olympics take place? What will the cognitive dissonance be like? Are we going to see allegations that it’s all faked and filmed on a Hollywood set, like the moon landing denial meme?

      • greenthinker2012

        My guess is that they will conveniently forget what they said.
        It is amazing what the need to avoid cognitive dissonance does to people.

      • Nuke Pro

        craploads of childhood leukemia now, just one example

        The trend is clear

      • Nuke Pro

        We are not healthy 66% of us get cancer, and cancer is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to heavy metal and radiation contamination.

      • Starviking

        The hydrogen explosion was not in the reactor vessel.

        Explosions do not automatically turn elements to dust – that would depend on the physical properties of the element.

        Plutonium is a heavy, non-volatile element. It is hard to vaporise and get out into the environment.

        So, if you can change the laws of physics, then large amounts of plutonium could get out into the environment.

      • Nuke Pro

        SO is uranium, yet 200,000 lbs were detected in the air over the Pacific, 200,000 over background to be clear.

        It was also found in Lithuania

        The lie that “it is heavy so it can’t float” is a lie!

      • Starviking

        Do you have some scientific references beyond your blog that I can check?

      • Michael Mann

        Your irrational fear is scary.

      • Geoffrey Small

        I have no fear. I am aware of the reality and the science and all of the decades of evidence and data that they are based on by people who have gone through and have had to deal with nuclear accidents. If that is scary to you, that is your problem, I really don’t care. You have been informed. What you wish to do with it is up to you. If you are working for the nuclear lobby, then your interest is to cover things up and make people like me and what we are telling you look irrational to others. But again, I really don’t care. In 2026, go visit the hospitals in Japan and speak to the doctors and see what they are willing to tell you about what is going on. By the way, they have been gagged by law not to talk about radiation-related disease now from Fukushima, so you might have to ask them very quietly and carefully. How irrational is that? To me, that is the kind of irrational fear to be scared about.

      • greenthinker2012

        Geoffrey you don’t need anyone else to make you look irrational.
        Your assertion that somehow in Japan there is a giant conspiracy of silence that is covering up illness is frankly racist. Oh those compliant Japanese!
        The assertion that somehow, despite the full weight of the Japanese state, internet crusader Geoffrey Small has managed to uncover the truth is laughable.
        Where do you get your so-called information?
        Is it from the lurid tabloid ENENEWS or the equivalent?
        I heard that the Queen of England is really a shape shifting alien lizard! You have been informed!

      • Geoffrey Small

        Conspiracy? Your words, not mine. Strange how both of you manage to use the same spin and conspiracy-theory-irrational-fear approach. Almost like you are following a script. Maybe you work for the same PR office, eh? You could at least try to do a better job of not making it look so obvious to the readers. As for the racist line, you are way, way off. And frankly way out of line. The fact is, doctors are now not allowed by the government to discuss or report about sicknesses related to Fukushima radiation, and journalists the same. If you wish to call that a giant conspiracy of silence then so be it. But let’s stop side-tracking the real issue and the real question that neither you nor the Tepco inspection seem to want to answer… where is the melted reactor core material now? I know you don’t seem to care about that, but honestly, some enquiring minds might want to know. Did it just vanish into thin air? It does after all, contain at least 100 grams of plutonium plus all the other nice things like Cesium 137, Strontium 90 etc… but I don’t want to scare you into being irrational again. Might be a conspiracy of yours or something behind it.

      • Michael Mann

        Or maybe people recognize the paranoia when we see it, it doesn’t take a rocket surgeon. The core material is still inside the containment, that is what it does.

      • Geoffrey Small

        What is a “rocket surgeon?” And what paranoia are you talking about? I feel fine. And I hope you are right and that the core material is still inside the containment. So go prove it. Get Tepco to provide the muon scans for the bottom of the reactor structure and the containment not just the upper half. Confirm it is all still there and we can sit back and relax for awhile and stop arguing with each other. At least until we have to decide what to do with it when Tepco finally gets in there to “clean it out,” (although frankly, I would prefer they bury it under concrete like the Russians did with Chernobyl). OK? Cheers. I gotta go to work, I don’t get paid for this kind of thing like some people do. Just another concerned citizen who does not really trust Tepco anymore, if you know what I mean. And when they say they cannot find the corium in the reactor and are assuming it is all OK on the bottom of the containment floor, well… yeah, some of us might get a little nervous. I think we’ve heard that kind of story before haven’t we?

      • Nuke Pro

        Ya Geoff, those pro nuke azzhats love pretending that everything against their promotion of their precious is fear and conspiracy.

        In fact 20 or so of the last 8 years “conspiracys” have now been exposed as 100% true.

      • Michael Mann

        Sorry, there is no conspiracy, you’ve been misinformed. I do feel sorry for you. I’m glad you’re not afraid, fear causes real health problems.

      • Sam Gilman

        Geoffrey,

        Stop talking utter trash and nonsense. There is no gag on talking about radiation-related diseases.

        Do you read Japanese? Before you posted this, did you think to check with a simple news search? Well, obviously not. You’re too willing to believe that Japanese doctors – who live in a democracy, where they can talk to anyone they like – would just do that, and obediently cover up some huge epidemic on the orders of their cruel and heartless masters. Same old racist claptrap. Be off with your trash.

      • Geoffrey Small

        right Sam, whatever you say… as for your democracy I am not sure everyone would agree: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/05/whistleblowers-japan-crackdown-state-secrets

      • Sam Gilman

        1. What part of “defence, diplomacy, counter-terrorism and counter-espionage” is reporting on radiogenic diseases?

        2. How come if I google thyroid cancer and Fukushima in Japanese I get recent news reports?

        3. How come you’re prepared to recycle century old racist stereotypes about east Asians?

        4. If this is so dangerous that millions of Japanese are dying, where are the bodies? I can see people walking about from my window. No corpses. No one at work has died from this. None of my friends or family here.

        Answers:
        1. It isn’t.
        2. Because there’s no gag.
        3. Geoffrey Small has racial issues with East Asians.
        4. There aren’t millions of people dying. Instead, Geoffrey Small likes to fantasise about East Asians dying (see 3.)

      • Nuke Pro

        Hmmm….guess you havent heard of the new Japan secrecy law…..

        Or Doctor Yamashita’s classic….just smile and the radiation cannot hurt you.

        There is a tsunami of lies and coverups. It is obvious, a third grader could see it.

      • Sam Gilman

        Tsk. It’s amazing what some people will believe about Japan.

        Here’s a link to a Google search in Japanese for the “Fukushima no.1 nuclear power plant accident”. People can click on the news tab to see how it’s still in the news and not secret.

        http://tinyurl.com/lajfoys

      • Michael Mann

        Please take a physics class or at least go to a reputable college site and learn how really misinformed you are. http://ocw.mit.edu/courses/nuclear-engineering/22-02-introduction-to-applied-nuclear-physics-spring-2012/

    • greenthinker2012

      There is enough water in an Olympic swimming pool to drown everyone on the planet.
      Statistics like yours and this one sound scary but are missing the vital ingredient; a mechanism by which it can happen.

  • Frank Energy

    Effen azzhats, of course it melted out. To even pretend that any significant amount is still in the reactor is a criminal lie.

    • Starviking

      So, they should stop checking the reactors then?

      • Nuke Pro

        They should stop wasting resources on stupid stuff that is simply a delaying tactic to prevent full scientific proof of the meltouts and meltthroughs — delays to allow the joke called the nuclear renaissance to gain traction whilst the lies are spun.

      • Starviking

        And how would you go about getting rapid and irrefutable proof of meltouts/meltthroughs?

      • Michael Mann

        Nuke Pro, did you forget you were posting under the name Frank Energy? or is it Steve?

      • Frank Energy

        They should stop pretending the fuel is in the bottom of the reactor

  • Den of the Chaldes

    All of the 3 reactor’s piles and #4’s SPF are either melt outs or blown to smithereens .

    It is either in the ground or long since in the atmosphere for all the fish, fowl, fauna and humans to enjoy… Many tons of radionuclide’s for all above to ingest.

    Ten years from now all life will be under its spell…and curse… And a score of yeàrs from now radioactive death will be the norm.

    Clean, green, low carbon annihilation is what just one nuclear plant failure will bring us, ànd just wait for the next two or three bring… And remember, there are more than 250 world wide.

    Stupid humans!

    Ned

    • Starviking

      What do you mean about Unit 4’s SFP? It was unloaded last year.

      • Michael Mann

        Please don’t confuse the issue with facts…Yes, all the fuel was removed from unit 4 spent fuel pool and it was all intact, but scary fantasies are more interesting.

    • greenthinker2012

      Well some people are stupid…and gullible.

      • Geoffrey Small

        And some people are stupid… and paid.

      • greenthinker2012

        I’m still waiting for my cheque to arrive.

      • Nuke Pro

        At the gates of Hades ye shall be paid for your ignorance in your hubris of science.

      • greenthinker2012

        Funny that your name is nuke pro. The definition of “pro”…short for…”professional”…”following an occupation as a means of livelihood or for gain.”

      • Michael Mann

        He has many names, Nuke Pro, SteveO, Frank Energy and probably a few others he is very prolific. It makes you wonder…

  • Bob Johnson

    How convenient, tepco forgot to look for leaks where gravity would take all the melted fuel. They know, if there were no leak they would report it to the world, but they are covering it up like they have the last 4 years.

    • Starviking

      It’s because they are checking with muons. If they wanted to check below the reactor they’d have to sink the muon detectors into the ground, and drill tunnels between the detectors and the estimated position of the melted core – or the muon detectors will be overwhelmed with rock readings.

      • Nuke Pro

        Incorrect, they did not check the bottom of the reactor….which would have proved a meltout…which would have put a damper on the joke called the nuclear renaissance, which is now in full swing of hundreds of millions of dollars of propaganda and lies to promote new nuke and a crack hit of regulation for the old klunkers that are too expensive to shut down at $2B a pop or more.

      • Starviking

        I see you don’t follow the fundamentals of muon detection.

  • greenthinker2012

    The article ends on an incorrect statement.

    It should read “However, tens of thousands of people remain displaced because of FEAR of radiation”

    The radiation levels in the areas around Fukushima are lower than the background radiation in some other areas of the world where people have lived healthy happy lives for countless generations.

    • Geoffrey Small

      Lol. You have got to be kidding. Let me guess, you work for Tepco’s PR bureau, right?

      • Michael Mann

        Not everyone is a radiophobic anti-nuclear conspiracy nut…

      • Geoffrey Small
      • Starviking

        Oh yes, where radiation was claimed to have shrunk someone’s arm…

        Where the ills of the sailors are in line with the general population…

      • Michael Mann

        The Reagan has an entire division of sailors trained in radiation monitoring and some of the most sophisticated and sensitive radiation monitors made it is beyond the realm of possibility that they would not monitor the levels encountered. They have standard NBC procedures to decontaminate the ship. These unfortunate sailors have been scared into believing their ailments are caused by radiation, this may result in them not getting the proper care. I do feel sorry for them. I was a reactor operator in the US Navy so I have some insight into their methods and equipment.

      • Nuke Pro

        LOL ohhhhh fear may cause them to get improper care from their doctors…..what a joke. You are lying to promote radiation. There will be a special place in hell for your types.

      • Michael Mann

        I mean if they ignore their symptoms and treat for radiation sickness or no treatment at all and not their real cause, they will not get better. While they listen to idiot lawyers out to make a buck at their expense, they suffer even more.

      • Nuke Pro

        @Mike, “if they ignore or treat for radiation sickness” is really stupid. Of course they are not going to treat for acute radiation sickness, they could chelate but that wouldn’t be a negative. Of course they are getting treatment for the diseases that are showing up.

        I know one of these lawyers, he is not “chasing carriers”.

      • Michael Mann

        Steve, Yes, it’s really stupid to think that radiation caused the symptoms in the first place, they still tried to blame it on that anyway. I’m not surprised you would be friends with a shyster anti-nuclear lawyer.

      • Frank Energy

        Thats slander, or is it lible

      • Michael Mann

        It’s neither, why don’t you ask a lawyer? Maybe he can explain it to you.

      • Michael Mann

        By the way “Frank” you are answering “Nuke Pro” discussion, please try to keep your aliases straight…

      • Michael Mann

        You show no compassion for those poor misguided sailors, are they human beings or just propaganda tools? How can you be so cold?

      • SykeWar

        You’ll forgive me if your words mean nothing to me; considering the Navy and AirForce nuclear cheating scandal and all. Again, I left referential links in my previous reply, but again JT just doesn’t like me. Shame. I like them.

      • Michael Mann

        I forgive you, I am sorry you have problems comprehending what I’m saying, I am not concerned with your acceptance. I don’t have to rely on the internet, I was a nuclear trained reactor operator and one of my duties was radiological controls, working with the ELTs to ensure doses remained as low as reasonably achievable. Your innuendo and vague accusations of a lack of integrity are not worth the electrons used to transmit them.

      • SykeWar

        And telling me your background without proof is also not worth the electrons. And without proof, anyone can insinuate all they want and it would be just as pertinent. Assuming you are what you say, does this make you qualified to say exactly what happened to the USRR and the people on her deck doing decon? How do people as yourselves, insure the plume the ship sailed into contained IR that was as “low as reasonably achievable”? You believe the Navy without question? You believe fear can give you cancer only related to IR? You seem to know a lot; where can I find the ratio of cancer victims to the number of people working on deck during their work in Tomodachi? I bet it’s higher than average.

      • Michael Mann

        I believe the nuclear trained sailors on board that ship, yes.

      • Michael Mann

        Listen, I post under my real, given name, with my photo, I am honest about my background and experience. You post under an alias, hide your identity, have an avatar with someone with a gun to their head and you tell me MY word is worthless without proof? How does that look to anyone reading this, who should they trust? The person telling them the truth or the person who starts right off the bat with an obvious lie? SykeWar, you don’t seem to be believable in any way shape or form, how do people like yourself make up this bunk and try to sell it to people? Do you have no respect for the public?

      • Michael Mann

        There is a picture of me next to the sail of one of the submarines I served on. https://scontent-lga.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash2/t31.0-8/965679_495562727179792_1287015225_o.jpg

      • SykeWar

        I assume you mean Conspiracy Theorist?

        In 1967, the CIA Created the Label “Conspiracy Theorists” … to Attack Anyone Who Challenges the “Official” Narrative

        You can search this article on the ‘net. I conveniently left a link to this in my previous post, but JT seems to not like some of my more… hard hitting replies.

      • Michael Mann

        No, I meant “nut” as in a : a foolish, eccentric, or crazy person

      • SykeWar

        Then why not just “nut”? Is a Conspiracy Theorist better than a Conspiracy Nut?

      • Michael Mann

        There are many kinds of “nut” these commenters are a special kind which ignores facts because they are from an authorised source only to believe crackpots with no real references except other crackpots or even more likely their own website. These people prey on those without hands on knowledge and induce fear, uncertainty and doubt which in turn causes anxiety and possible negative health effects in those gullible enough to believe them. They lash out at anyone who challenges their paranoid fantasy with vague references.

      • SykeWar

        You know what’s nuts?:
        Continuing to use a fuel which needs burying for thousands of years with no place to bury it. Replacing non-organic with organic kitty litter in nuclear waste containers in a collapsing salt mine not knowing the explosive consequences*. Denigrating others who are trying to do risk assessments using what little information they’re spoon fed like porridge and geiger counters they’ve bought with their own money, because the authorities charged with such studies decide it’s not necessary based on nothing ( thankfully, there are those that bare such barbs if only to embarrass those, whose work they’re doing, into action). Comparing nuclear ship/submarine reactors with NPP and the people who maintain them.
        Contending those that are less able to handle higher than average levels of ionizing radiation are somehow lesser humans not really deserving of life. Comparing natural radiation which life has had billions of years to adapt to, to intense man-made radiation from TMI, Chernobyl and Fukushima. Ad nauseum.

        That’s what’s Nuts here.

        You know what else is nuts? JT won’t let me put links in my post.

        *Youtube: WIPP Leak Reaction Radiation Experiment.

      • Michael Mann

        You do realize that the WIPP has nothing to do with commercial nuclear power? The radiophobia you exhibit is disappointing.

      • SykeWar

        In 2010, the USDOE mothballed previous plans to develop Yucca Mountain nuclear waste repository in Nevada, leaving WIPP as a prime candidate for a replacement facility to store waste currently accumulating at U.S. commercial nuclear power plants.

        But regardless, it’s all the same mindset. The same stupid people doing the same stupid things. Idiot savants perhaps, but idiots none-the-less. And your Normalcy Bias is disconcerting.

      • Nuke Pro

        Skye, you go Skye, educate the masses about this awful radiation tragedy being forced down our throats, literally, by the monied interests. Psychopaths really.

      • SykeWar

        They’re always around. Whether you’re talking about tetra-ethyl lead emissions or Agent Orange. It’s the same “experts” and shills spouting the same BS trying to reduce liability for knowingly hurting people. I will never get over the NRC transcripts on discussions about the Fukushima storage pools:
        “Do we put water on it??”
        “How about sand??”
        “I don’t know, maybe both…”

        Who’s on first?
        Nuclear Comedians.

      • Michael Mann

        SykWar How arrogant do you have to be to tell me what I meant? You seem to see everything through the filter of your own lens of conspiracy and twisted logic. I am not part of some grand conspiracy which includes scientists, doctors and anyone with experience and to believe one even exists is delusional….your avatar seems a little odd and not really very sane, first rule of gun ownership treat any gun as always loaded.

      • greenthinker2012

        It seems you get the majority of your opinions from guessing.

    • Nuke Pro

      Oh jeez, you trying to play that card/lie?

      • Michael Mann

        Why do you use so many alias names? Frank Energy, Nuke Pro, SteveO, how many do you have? Do you worry that it makes you look bad?

      • Frank Energy

        LOL your wife makes you look bad

      • Michael Mann

        Always show your class and integrity with your comments.

      • greenthinker2012

        Be more specific. What exactly is “the card/lie”?

      • Frank Energy

        The ramsar card lie

      • greenthinker2012

        What specifically is the lie?

    • SykeWar

      Fear kept man alive for over 200,000 years. No reason to stop relying on it now. Especially when dealing with people who are, shall we say, less than completely and totally honest?

      In some areas around Fukushima, levels are low, in others, they’re very high. And it changes with the wind, rain and snow.

      • greenthinker2012

        Irrational fear resulted in the Salem witch trials where people were burned alive.
        Irrational fear is not something to be celebrated.

      • Tom kauser

        You don’t need to go back 200k years to explain away fear you only need to go back to the 1970s when education was still based on effects of radiation and not just its potential to free us from oil?

      • Michael Mann

        What effects at what levels of radiation are you talking about? There aren’t any quality studies showing any effects of radiation less than 10REM or 0.1 Sv We have been exposed to radiation since the beginning of time.

    • bo

      Those reading this thread: you can find out who the paid trolls are, by clicking on the ‘thumbs down’ button. The downvote option is locked for the trolls. Thank you.

      • SykeWar

        Bo, very nice pictures (paintings/drawings?) btw. You’re very talented.

      • bo

        Hi (^ ^) twitter @jackiemopsy

      • SykeWar

        Hello. Hope all is well.

      • greenthinker2012

        Wow then Disqus has made everyone “Trolls” by disabling the down button.

      • bo

        VERY interesting. Because when I checked earlier, the downvoting button worked ONLY on antinuclear comments. After I posted my comment, I noticed it was fixed again, and now ALL downvoting buttons are disabled. VERY INTERESTING, Japan Times.

      • greenthinker2012

        Not really that interesting except that it shows how you jumped to a conclusion without any proper evidence.

      • bo

        My point was, when I checked, it was positively only the pronuclear comments had locked downvoting buttons. I know, because I checked all the comments. After I pointed that out, the buttons had been fixed. I am only saying ‘it’s interesting’ sarcastically btw. This is a common set-up I’ve seen in many forums that discuss fukushima.

      • greenthinker2012

        And my point is that instead of talking about how Disqus voting works, you insinuated that it was somehow a pro nuclear conspiracy.

      • Sparafucile

        TEPCO and Shinzo Abe are obviously in charge of the Disqus downvote buttons. Why can’t you see that?

      • Michael Mann

        Nuke Pro / Frank Energy / SteveO seems to be a “troll” trying to get people to go to his personal website, do you think the other anti-nuclear people are “trolls” too? ,

  • SykeWar

    Lest we overlook the elephant in the room; radiation is not to escape containment in an uncontrolled manner… ever. If it can, then those reactors should not be put in service… ever. I hear the replies, “But, there was earthquakes and tsunamis”. And enough human error to insure that what happened, happened. Nuclear power is a great idea. In the hands of humans? Absolutely not.

  • I’m Not Here

    Japan can live on without having any operating nuclear power plants, all their nuke plants have been shut down now. Maybe make a deal, clean up Daiichi then restart other nuke plants.

    It is obvious with Japan passing a secrecy act to hide details of their nuclear industry’s failures or the US Navy losing or sealing sailors medical records that were aboard the USS Reagan’s flotilla or EPA raising background radiations levels along with radiation exposures limits after the Japanese melt-outs, that the nuclear industry relies on deception to pretend everything is fine and say there is nothing to see here, please move along and not worry about it.

    Worldwide, there is still no answer for safely storing spent and wasted nuclear fuel rods for hundreds to thousands of years. With the blobs of melted fuel rods at Daiichi, there is no answers for dealing with them. They don’t even know where the melts are.

  • Starviking

    Scientific references please.

  • Michael Mann

    Steve, I thought you sounded familiar, still linking to your own site?.. Is this your fourth alias? Frank Energy, SteveO,, Nuclear Professor, Nuke-Pro, did I miss any?

  • Frank Energy

    Fuku 3 blew up in a type of nuclear explosion called a Prompt Moderated Criticality.

    MOX is way too dangerous. Check the Nukepro website for real information

    • greenthinker2012

      Don’t bother checking out the Nuke Pro/Frank Energy website.
      As his comment above shows it is worthless for actual facts.
      He believes in things that defy the laws of physics.
      He is mostly concerned with making up stories that sound scary.

      • Frank Energy

        LOL for the pronuker, its very important to keep people away from the truth…..so blatant.

      • greenthinker2012

        frank/steve/whomever…

        Your claim that “prompt moderated criticality” happened at Fukushima defies the laws of physics.
        It does show that you are ignorant of the actual science involved.

        1) There is no such thing as prompt moderated criticality.
        2) The fuel is deliberately enriched to a level below which prompt criticality can occur. The neutrons needed to sustain the chain reaction come from delayed neutrons.

      • Frank Energy

        Incorrect, in fact Argonne national lab proved the Prompt Critical even with uranium fuel only. With MOX it is 1000 times more probable

        red pill time?

        Video to Argonne test here
        http://nukeprofessional.blogspot.com/p/videos-moderated-prompt-criticality.html

      • greenthinker2012

        frank/steve/nukepro/whoever….
        It is obvious you don’t know enough to even call things by their proper name.

        You said “PROMPT MODERATED CRITICALITY” occurred. This does not exist. It is like saying something is “super fast/very slow”. It is nonsense.
        “PROMPT CRITICALITY” exists in some specially designed experimental reactors with uranium enriched above the levels in a civilian power plant.
        “MODERATED CRITICALITY” exists in civilian power plants where the neutrons are slowed down to increase their probability of fissioning the Uranium . However the plants are designed so that these neutrons alone are not enough to maintain the nuclear reaction. Additional neutrons called delayed neutrons (that come from the decay of some of the fission products seconds to minutes later) are required to keep the reaction going. These delayed neutrons are why the reaction is slow and easy to control.

      • Michael Mann

        The truth is something you go out of your way to avoid, Why do you use James Conca’s picture as an avatar? Are you ashamed to be associated with the junk you post? You are one of the least truthful people I have found on the internet.. Nuke-Pro, Frank Energy, SteveO or whatever you are posting under today. No matter what name you post under, the lack of truthfulness prevails,

    • Michael Mann

      It was a hydrogen explosion.. chemical, not nuclear, as has been explained to you in minute detail, it is impossible for a nuclear explosion to have occur ed at Fukushima yet you insist on trying to perpetuate this idea.. you seem to have no integrity on any level.

      • Frank Energy

        LOL, then how did that 200,000 lbs of uranium get into the air if the blast didn’t come from within the vessels…….?

        Hey Mikey, he doesn’t like truth. It’s inconvenient to the precious.

      • Michael Mann

        So you start with a lie then make a statement based on that lie then accuse ME of not liking the truth? Very interesting technique, Frank, Jim, Steve, Nuke Pro or whatever false name you care to use today, Maybe you should try telling the truth at least once so you could learn to recognize it.

      • Frank Energy

        You got no game

      • greenthinker2012

        frank/steve/nukepro/whoever…
        I challenge you to…
        1) make a proper assertion (one that is provable or disprovable)
        2) back up your claim with scientifically valid proof. (not your own website)
        For example…
        Where do you get your preposterous idea that 200,000 lbs of uranium got into the air?
        Let’s start with that.
        Are you up for the challenge?

      • Frank Energy

        Yo Azzhat, read the calculations, all of the source data from the EPA AND all the assumptions made are all clearly listed.

        You can’t run with the big dog if you refuse to even get off the bench. how sad to be a paid troll promoting disease. I respect gollum more, at least he had an excuse

      • greenthinker2012

        So your answer to the challenge of putting your ideas to the test of rational debate is:
        “No I am not up to the challenge. I will resort to name calling.”

        Got it steve/frank/nukepro/whoever.

      • Frank Energy

        Read the calculations and source data. Now you debate the facts.

      • greenthinker2012

        steve/frank/nukepro/whoever…
        I challenge you to make a verifiable statement.
        Not name calling or insinuation or opinion or links to your website that don’t actually support your nonsense.
        Make a verifiable statement.
        You have yet to do so.
        The closest you came was when you claimed earlier that “prompt moderated criticality” occurred at Fukushima and then linked to a video that showed something different because “prompt moderated criticality” doesn’t exist in any way shape or form. It is a nonsense phrase.
        So make a claim and then back it up with a link to somewhere other than your own website.

  • Frank Energy

    For those interested in the truth about nuclear, its lies, and radiation

    agreenroad blog does an excellent job. GE owns the news media, you are not going to get good information from the main stream.

    • greenthinker2012

      However if you want scary sounding stories that are not constrained by the laws of physics go to Frank/Steve/Whoever’s website that he promotes very chance he gets.

  • Michael Mann

    Still trying to send people to your website Steve? Isn’t there some sort of rule about referencing yourself as proof of what you’re saying?

    • Frank Energy

      Yo azzhat, proof, links, calcs, source data, all available at the nukepro.

      You just hate having such a robust anti nuclear resource out there. Stop chasing the precious.

      • Frank Energy

        The asshat was to mikey

      • Michael Mann

        Frank, please keep your aliases straight, this is Nuke Pro’s response.. Did you forget which name you were posting under?

      • Frank Energy

        What possible difference could it make Mikey?

      • Michael Mann

        Just the difference between truth and fiction, you probably don’t have the capability to understand. It has to do with integrity, another concept you have difficulty understanding.

      • Frank Energy

        Wow, this is level of debate you have been reduced to?

      • Michael Mann

        That was the response your comment deserved. Yes I let you drag me down, but your “What difference does it make? Comment struck a nerve , the reason we comment is to make a difference, to inform and educate so people can make rational decisions. They cannot do that unless they are provided with true facts, so integrity matters, truth matters, I feel disappointed that you do not understand that simple truth.

      • Frank Energy

        And how is that possibly impacted by any stage name I wish to choose?

      • greenthinker2012

        Ha Ha…He has forgotten to “log out/log back in” with me a number of times as well.

      • Michael Mann

        Still trying to send everyone to your own website, isn’t there a rule against promoting your own website on discus? Doesn’t it count if you post under different names and pretend you are not the website owner?

      • Frank Energy

        Why not stick to debate the facts Mikey…..because nukers don’t have facts, so pot shots and lies are all they got…..they got no game.

      • Michael Mann

        So, you post under several different names (none of which are your given name) Trying to fool people into thinking there is a group of people who share your view. Then you try and use each persona to get people to link to your own website which you claim is proof of your statements here. You make up your own facts and references, then get pissy when someone calls you on it. . In response you call everyone trying to have an adult conversation about an adult topic childish names.. Does that sum up your commenting style? Frank/Steve/Nuke? I do feel sorry for you.

  • Tom kauser

    We halfassed everything but the muons

  • greenthinker2012

    frank?/steve?/nukepro?/whoever…
    I challenge you to…
    1) make a proper assertion (one that is provable or disprovable)
    2) back up your claim with scientifically valid proof. (not your own website)
    For example…
    Where do you get your preposterous idea that 200,000 lbs of uranium got into the air?
    Let’s start with that.
    Are you up for the challenge?

  • Michael Mann

    Still using your own website as a reference, don’t you think people have more sense than that? They know that Frank/Nuke Pro/ SteveO are the same person and it seems that the easiest way to know it’s you is that you reference your own website as proof of your statements. Just how dumb do you think people are? I think you should give people more credit. You are incorrigible

    • Frank Energy

      Mikey ain’t got no game. Strictly and clearly, just an ad hominem.

  • Michael Mann

    Most people think it’s bad form to reference your own website as proof of anything…I said this.. if you don’t believe me, just ask me, and I’ll tell you….doesn’t really cut it

  • Enkidu

    Just a few thoughts on a quick examination of your link:

    1. It should go without saying, but you can’t simply multiply length and width to calculate surface area on a sphere (e.g., the earth). This is a basic mistake.

    2. Assuming a uniform distribution through 457,000,000 cubic kilometers of air is a pretty astounding assumption (especially when the dispersion simulator on which you rely contradicts it).

    You may want to go back and give this another shot.

    • Frank Energy

      Thanks for looking, very few actually do. Very few wish to think.

      To prove what? That the amount aerosolized was really 136,834 lbs, versus 200,000?

      Dont miss the forest for the trees. The approximations tell the magnitude of the story.

      Assumptions need to be made, pretending that the end result is made more accurate by more calculations is an error of logic, methinks.

      • Sam Gilman

        One has to ask: if you don’t know how to do things like calculate the surface area of a sphere – which in UK maths is done for GCSE (the basic equivalent of junior high school) – are you actually capable of holding forth on complex scientific issues and should you be parading yourself as an expert?

      • Frank Energy

        Yo big Sam, it is simplistic to perform the calculation you speak of. However, it does not improve accuracy in understanding what the forest looks like.

        Now lets talk about the UK….how is that Sellafield working out for ya? Why did UK have to sack the contractor, and why are you not protesting against nuclear and radiation?

        And why is Cameron Obama’s friend, only the moochers like Obama

      • Sam Gilman

        Simplistic? You mean it was too simple? But you did an even simpler calculation, reminiscent of someone who hasn’t actually got any kind of higher science education at all.

        Why are you not protesting against climate change? If, as this particular sockpuppet of the Disqus user “nukepro”, you’re posing as an “energy maven”, why aren’t you doing that? That’s a much bigger threat than civilian nuclear power by some very long stretch.