“Get off your high horse ff”

Considering I wasn’t even born when WW2 went on and ended, I couldn’t even be on a high horse. It isn’t like I was around then to take credit for all the good that went down.

“don’t forget the USA’s involvement in many atrocities since WW2 whether it be in plain view or shrouded in secrecy.”

As President Ronald Reagan put it, we where fighting the most dangerous enemy since their long climb from the swamps of the stars. The US did commit war crimes, the massacres of Dachau, Biscari, and Canicattì. Those three massacres where killings of Axis prisoners of war in Europe by Allied soldiers. Now I can be all like “Since they where enemy prisoners of war, it was justified”. But if I did that, I would look like an Ass. The US never said that we where perfectly innocent of any wrong doings during WW2. But compared to the Axis powers, we where perfect little angles.

“The USA is certainly not all peace and goodwill to mankind.”

No we aren’t, no nation is. And anybody to say that would be lying. BUT the USA has done a lot of good for the world. But I think we try a bit to hard and we end up making ourselves look bad in the long run. the Iraq war is an example of that. But if you compare the good and bad the USA has done, your perception of us would change. Of course you only see what you want to see.

“Oh, and the USA helped Japan rebuild only with its best interests at heart.”

We didn’t ONLY help rebuild Japan with only our interests
at heart. They lost WW2, and being the nation we are, and the ideals we hold, we helped to rebuild the nation, and help set them on a path for success. Of course, there where interests at play. We wanted to check the expansion of the USSR and communism. Even today, besides helping out arguably our closest ally in Asia.. Japan, we also want to check the rise of China.
As you can see Gudge, I just did the “American” thing and proved everything you said wrong. The only threat to peace and goodwill to mankind is stupidity, and you aren’t doing humanity much of a favor right now.

The difference is that the commission of war crimes by the Allies wasn’t a matter of policy.

Again you’re missing the point – for the Allies, war crimes wasn’t national policy. For the major Axis powers, notably Germany and Japan, it very much was.

And that’s totally relevant because … ?

Except what America did or didn’t do post-WW2 is totally irrelevant. Remember when this article was about the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Those were good times!

Hi, I’m a Japanese citizen, nice to meet you.
With all my respect, if you’re a citizen of then Allies, I’ll appreciate if you’re not trying to justify the bombs dropping as the way you’re doing, which makes me disgusted very much.
You’re provoking my Japanese mind, I can’t feel any humanity or sympathy in your text.
Even if the things were just as you say, any of which is not going to justify it, there was no validity with the bombs to be atomic ones, other bombs could be enough to destroy the targets that you refered to.
Sending my prior thanks to you, believing that you’re not going to make me uncomfortable anymore.

Thank you for responding me, without giving your nationality.
Well, it’s only for your “responding me” that I actually appreciate, nothing to find other issue to thank you.
“The baby was born”, a new toy was requiring them to get used, that’s all.
There’s no logic in dropping the bombs that you rely on, and I’m not talking about “logic”, but humanity.
I wonder, how you people dare post such a cold blooded comment, really freezing.
I’m one of the people belonged to the country attacked by the bombs, how dare you, how could you try to convince “me”? To make me admit its validity for a “necessary evil “?
“You” convincing me is never accomplished.
I’m not trying to argue with Chinese or Korean people saying about the bombs to be a kind of punishment, or retribution, but just listening.
I don’t think I have to bear with it if it’s for then Allies people except China.
Also I don’t think I’m going to reply you again unless you gave your nationality up.
I truly wonder how would you think yourself to be fair while I’ve given my nationality since ever.

This is exactly why it is so difficult to discuss World War 2 with Japanese people: they tend to be too emotionally invested in it and unable to think about it rationally. Additionally, let me briefly point out that discussing World War 2 is not a matter of citizenship – I do not care what country (or countries) you are a citizen of and find the mention completely superfluous, and I find attempts to silence criticism or discussion of the war based on citizenship to be quite reprehensible.

Now, moving on to the meat of the issue:
Operations Olympic and Coronet (the invasions of Kyushu and Honshu, respectively) were expected
to face at least 30 divisions, which would comprise something between 300,000 and close to 1,000,000 troops. Combined with “a fanatically hostile population” who had been training all able bodied people,
including women and children, to engage hostile forces with weapons such as bamboo spears, and had already encouraged civilians to commit suicide rather than face capture in, for example, Okinawa, the death toll for an invasion of Japan – the “alternative option” to dropping the bombs – was expected to exceed /ten million/ deaths. This figure does not include projected deaths from Operation Pastel, the diversionary invasion of Formosa, nor any deaths incurred during the continued fighting in China, Korea, or any other fronts in the Pacific. (http://cgsc.cdmhost.com/cdm/ref/collection/p4013coll8/id/3387 )

Japan had marshaled nearly 4.5 million regular army troops (and untold more paramilitary reserves) for the all out fight-to-the-death defense of the home islands. On Saipan, the /fatality rate/ of Japanese
defenders was 98.4%. On Okinawa, 90%. Of Okinawa’s civilians, between one eighth and one third died in the invasion – Okinawa prefecture’s own estimate is 100,000 of roughly 300,000 civilians (http://www.peace-museum.pref.okinawa.jp/english/index.html ). Extrapolating that out, you could expect 4 million regular army members from the Japanese military dead – and then on top of that, how many million Japanese civilians? How many of the 2.7 million Allied soldiers slated for the invasion? A study done by the Secretary of War’s office projected up to /ten million *Japanese* deaths/ were Operation Downfall to go ahead, to say nothing of wounded, orphaned, etc. That figure cannot be emphasized enough, noting again that it does not include projected Allied casualties, which were expected to be 1.7 to 4 million (400,000-800,000 fatalities – two to four times the deaths caused by the two atomic bombs in Allied deaths alone). (http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/2009/June%202009/0609invasion.aspx , Richard Frank, Downfall, p. 188-189, 340)

Do we even need to go into the likely partition of Japan into North and South Japan along ideological lines when the Soviets invade Hokkaido? (see: previous Downfall PDF) Who is going to take responsibility for the millions of Japanese people living in the all-too-plausible Communist North Japan? Who is even going to wager a guess as to when Japan would be reunited, when North and South Korea are still at each others throats, a remnant not only of the horrors of World War 2 but of Japan’s colonial past?

To put it bluntly, I would gladly trade 200,000 lives for a projected ten million. I would gladly trade 200,000 lives and an immediate end to one of the most destructive wars in history for ten million lives lost, the largest naval invasion in history (more than twice as many divisions slated for the Kanto invasion as took part in D-Day), the partitioning of Japan into North/South along ideological lines, and the complete destruction of not just Hiroshima and Nagasaki but of innumerable cities, towns, and villages throughout Japan.

To choose otherwise would be one of the most heartless and selfish decisions possible. I can appreciate that Japanese people have been subjected to a great deal of propaganda regarding how the final years of the war played out, and I can appreciate that losing such a major war can be a sore point of contention, but I absolutely cannot appreciate nor understand the Japanese insistence that dropping the bombs was ‘a bad thing’. I cannot appreciate the absolute lack of thought for all the millions of lives – the vast majority Japanese civilians – that would be lost would the Allies have had to invade Japan.

This is something the Japanese must understand.

It is not about ‘them’ and ‘us’. It is not about emotion.

It is about reality and facts, and that is what must be used when discussing such issues.

You have my condolences if discussing the bombings makes you uncomfortable, but it is precisely that discomfort which you need to throw off if you are ever to really understand the war. You can’t just
ignore facts and reality because you disagree with it or it brings you discomfort. War is a painful thing, and we should make every effort to learn from it so that the lessons therein are not repeated.

There you are proving my point: you’re too emotional about it to even acknowledge facts and reason. Your position is basically “the bombs were bad because humanity!” yet you refuse to even engage in discussion about the available alternative options, instead devolving to personal attacks.
You were right about one thing, though – I am sorry. Sorry that seventy years on, huge numbers of Japanese people are still being brainwashed by the propaganda machine and steadfastly refuse to even begin to think about the situation from any viewpoint other than the one that has been crammed down their throats their entire lives by a government that whitewashes history.
I sincerely hope that one day you and those that think like you can finally tear down the fortress of ignorance you have created and actually educate yourselves, but it’s clear that at the present even attempting to discuss the matter with you – as I originally stated – is simply futile.

“Yawn … Well maybe if Japan had just surrendered instead of suicidally continuing the war when all hope of victory was long since lost then none of this would have happened.”

The dropping on of the bombs was so Japan would surrender to the US and not the USSR. It had nothing to do about ending the war. The US was afraid that the USSR would take over China, Japan, SE Asia and then turn towards the USA.

Raping of Nanking? Try reading up on Nationalist China V Communist China … Most killed in Nanking was Nationalist on Communist.

The Nationalist were Allies of the USA, until FDR decided to betray then and hand the country over to the Communist, because he was in fear of the USSR taking over.

Nankin Massacre is based on a novel which you almost wrote out the name of, Rape of Nankin, a fictional book, and the idea I’m sure was taken from them killing their own people. Also the number of the victims are not even unknown, it keeps increasing because those who believe in relies on the documents by John Rabe whose report of the number kept changing by 10,000 or so in a few days and he also revised his journal so many times because he hated Japan for losing his weapon selling job because of Japan.
If you believe in Nankin Massacre, tell me which unit attacked there. Or what kinda weapon they used to keep the buildings and yet killed the enormous amount of people all at once. And how they moved the bodies and even though there were supposed to be tons of bodies, the population increased right after when it was supposed to happen. OH wait, you can’t say that cuz it was not real. The idea of Nankin Massacre first came in at Tokyo trial where India, France, Netherlands, Philippines, Australia said that the trial is not legal and rather outrageous. Since such a thing did not happen and what was brought in was fabricated photos by Chinese people – they were making the stuff up and posted on the newspapers there to send them hideous pics and since it rewarded them people tried their best fabricating, it was the first time Japanese people to hear about it and that was one of the things that the fake trial sentenced Japan as bad.
Also, to end the war, why did you have to use the atomic bombs and not regular bombs like they were dropping DAILY? In Tokyo, with that alone 5 months before that, they got to kill over 100,000 unarmed women, children and elder people in that one time. Why did they have to drop those 2 different types of atomic bombs and kept the records of the victims without curing them?
And what the heck did you read in this article?

Visit the Nanjing Memorial. I was there in January. You will learn something. Your attitude illustrates why Japan better never get into a war with China. Payback will be severe.